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Milivoje
Pridruen/-a: Sre Jun 2010 13:36
Prispevkov: 166
Kraj: Ljubljana
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 Objavljeno: Sre Avg 17, 2011 20:41 Naslov sporočila: |
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| audiofrik je napisal/a: | | 3.300 za 10.000 kar tako , v smislu od viÅ”ka glava ne boli, potrebno je vedeti malo veĆØ kaj to pomeni v smislu hitrosti polnjenja ipd.. |
No ravno to me je zanimalo ali se pozna...
V l-4 niso nujno 3300. L-2 ima 3300, L-5 10000...za L-4 ne najdem podatka 
Po moĆØi je veliko bližje L-5...
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His Dudeness |
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audiofrik
Pridruen/-a: Pet Dec 2008 17:19
Prispevkov: 1491
Kraj: LJUBLJANA
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| Objavljeno: Sre Avg 17, 2011 20:46 Naslov sporočila: |
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se absolutno strinjam, samo 6.800-10.000 je 50% veĆØ 3.300-10.000 pa 300% in to se definitivno sliÅ”i, hitrost in nasploh karakter zvoka je dosti odvisen od napajalnih kondenzatorjev, in tu vložiti kakih 15-20 eur za Elno,BC ali Mundorf je po moje najmanjÅ”i vložek za najveĆØ razlike v zvoku.
Nikoli ne menjam samo usmerniÅ”kih ampak kompletno vse elektrolite, da sem paĆØ potem relativno siguren za nadaljnih par let |
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drago67
Pridruen/-a: Čet Okt 2008 19:24
Prispevkov: 1088
Kraj: ljubljana
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| Objavljeno: Sre Avg 17, 2011 20:54 Naslov sporočila: |
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| audiofrik je napisal/a: | se absolutno strinjam, samo 6.800-10.000 je 50% veĆØ 3.300-10.000 pa 300% in to se definitivno sliÅ”i, hitrost in nasploh karakter zvoka je dosti odvisen od napajalnih kondenzatorjev, in tu vložiti kakih 15-20 eur za Elno,BC ali Mundorf je po moje najmanjÅ”i vložek za najveĆØ razlike v zvoku.
Nikoli ne menjam samo usmerniÅ”kih ampak kompletno vse elektrolite, da sem paĆØ potem relativno siguren za nadaljnih par let |
kolikor sem gledal je samo en tak kondi okoli 20 eur...a si predstavljaÅ” znesek za okoli 50 (raje veĆØ ) ojaĆØevalcev in receiverjev..vse ostale tamale menjam tudi sam,ali pa mi jih zamenja že miloÅ” ,ĆØe je v ojaĆØevalcu veĆØja napaka,ki presega moje skromno znanje.. |
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audiofrik
Pridruen/-a: Pet Dec 2008 17:19
Prispevkov: 1491
Kraj: LJUBLJANA
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| Objavljeno: Sre Avg 17, 2011 21:02 Naslov sporočila: |
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usmernik kot tak ima doloĆØeno impedanco, odvisno od transformatorja-presek žice, upornosti kondenztorjev ki je precej odvisno od kapacitivnosti---z bistvenim posegom v ta razmerja spremeniÅ” tudi zvok,lahko neznatno ali precej, ker sem sam kar nekaj tega dal skozi tudi približno vsaj zase vem kaj delam, dam pa kar nekajna kvaliteto materiala, in ko vidim kak nov kao vrhunski ojaĆØevalec poln teh low cost jajc me zmrazi...
tu se tudi povsem strinjam z raznimi modifikatorji squeezboxov ipd ki v bistvu najveĆØkrat zamenjajoelektrolite za boljÅ”e-vsaj panasonic, dodajo par folijskih in stvar verjamem da igra povsem drugaĆØe.... |
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mestn pu
Pridruen/-a: Sre Jan 2009 22:21
Prispevkov: 2635
Kraj: domžale
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| Objavljeno: Čet Avg 18, 2011 07:35 Naslov sporočila: |
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| audiofrik je napisal/a: | usmernik kot tak ima doloĆØeno impedanco, odvisno od transformatorja-presek žice, upornosti kondenztorjev ki je precej odvisno od kapacitivnosti---z bistvenim posegom v ta razmerja spremeniÅ” tudi zvok,lahko neznatno ali precej, ker sem sam kar nekaj tega dal skozi tudi približno vsaj zase vem kaj delam, dam pa kar nekajna kvaliteto materiala, in ko vidim kak nov kao vrhunski ojaĆØevalec poln teh low cost jajc me zmrazi...
tu se tudi povsem strinjam z raznimi modifikatorji squeezboxov ipd ki v bistvu najveĆØkrat zamenjajoelektrolite za boljÅ”e-vsaj panasonic, dodajo par folijskih in stvar verjamem da igra povsem drugaĆØe.... |
KonĆØno Å”e nekdo, ki ga zmrazi, ko zagleda bedno stanje pasivnih komponent v "naj bi bila" dobra roba, glasbenih komponentah.
Menjava za boljÅ”e pasivne elemente je samo prvi razred tvikanja, naslednji razredi so, vsaj pri lampaÅ”ih, doseganje sozvoĆØja med menjanimi elektroliti, MKPji in bypass kondiji in celo dodajanje bypassov tam kjer so jih v tovarni"pozabili" dodati.
Bypass kondiji "skrbijo" za anuliranje mikrooscilacij na poti signala, medtem ko pravilna obdelava ohiÅ”ij glasbenih komponent in zvoĆØnikov odstranjuje mehansko povzroĆØene mikroscilacije.
VeĆØinoma celo v vrhunskih komponentah za niĆØ od navedenega ni poskrbljeno, ali pa je poskrbljeno samo v majhni meri, kar me po svoje ĆØudi, saj so navedeni postopki zelo uĆØinkoviti in njihovi uĆØinki so sliÅ”ni do te mere, da je razlika pred obdelavo in po njej, kot na dlani.
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Great people talk about ideas, average people talk about things, small people talk about other people. |
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Milivoje
Pridruen/-a: Sre Jun 2010 13:36
Prispevkov: 166
Kraj: Ljubljana
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| Objavljeno: Ned Avg 21, 2011 13:04 Naslov sporočila: |
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Ugotovil sem, da so napajalni kondenzatorji v mojem Luxmanu Rubycon-ovi 10 000uF 50V.
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His Dudeness |
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gizmo
Pridruen/-a: Sre Okt 2012 3:36
Prispevkov: 4
Kraj: Spain
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| Objavljeno: Sre Okt 31, 2012 03:51 Naslov sporočila: |
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Hi all,
this is my first post in this forum. I come to this forum because I'm looking to know what the original capacitors mounted my amp Densen DM-10 MKII.
As it appears in the photos capacitors are blue with logo Densen ... 10000uf, 63V, 30mm
My amp with me 12 years. Observing a sound come cut at the ends and a dull sound in general, less dynamic and less articulated sound.
I'm not an expert in technical matters but if that is one of the most special amplifiers for music literally. I've had more expensive amplifications, as well as amplifiers of different topologies ..... I know the sound of this amp. The amplifier was not designed to obtain the best technical specifications but its design was based on the search for a specific sound. Bipolar transistors used in single ended configuration as an example. A mosfet is more linear but a bipolar single ended stage has a higher harmonic distortion in second order harmonics somehow emulating the euphonic distortion of a single ended triode. Example concession worst specs looking for a default sound. Its sound high PRAT factor while euphonious without losing face with the neutral sound of air feel house brand and special fluidity and absence of any hint mechanical reproduction goes together without doubt its source feed composed of toroidal concrete and these capacitors.
I do not want to replace the capacitors by other supposedly better. I want exactly the same to leave no room for doubt of possible suggestions with a change in the original sound.
In the version of the DM-10 MKI used ROEDERSTEIN capacitors ROE. This German company was bought by Vishay capacitors. My logic invites me to think that the capacitors in the DM-10MKII are some Vishay BC (for the color of the cover) as being Vishay leading manufacturers serving Densen different material like metal film resistors, etc .... . exclusive service of all electronic capacitors for Densen under your screen name could be part of an agreement which was subject to price improvements for the material to buy a larger volume to Vishay.
Someone shed some light please (question mark ..... does not work, sorry)
Greetings from Spain.
gizmo |
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mestn pu
Pridruen/-a: Sre Jan 2009 22:21
Prispevkov: 2635
Kraj: domžale
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| Objavljeno: Sre Okt 31, 2012 08:36 Naslov sporočila: |
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| gizmo je napisal/a: | Hi all,
this is my first post in this forum. I come to this forum because I'm looking to know what the original capacitors mounted my amp Densen DM-10 MKII.
As it appears in the photos capacitors are blue with logo Densen ... 10000uf, 63V, 30mm
My amp with me 12 years. Observing a sound come cut at the ends and a dull sound in general, less dynamic and less articulated sound.
I'm not an expert in technical matters but if that is one of the most special amplifiers for music literally. I've had more expensive amplifications, as well as amplifiers of different topologies ..... I know the sound of this amp. The amplifier was not designed to obtain the best technical specifications but its design was based on the search for a specific sound. Bipolar transistors used in single ended configuration as an example. A mosfet is more linear but a bipolar single ended stage has a higher harmonic distortion in second order harmonics somehow emulating the euphonic distortion of a single ended triode. Example concession worst specs looking for a default sound. Its sound high PRAT factor while euphonious without losing face with the neutral sound of air feel house brand and special fluidity and absence of any hint mechanical reproduction goes together without doubt its source feed composed of toroidal concrete and these capacitors.
I do not want to replace the capacitors by other supposedly better. I want exactly the same to leave no room for doubt of possible suggestions with a change in the original sound.
In the version of the DM-10 MKI used ROEDERSTEIN capacitors ROE. This German company was bought by Vishay capacitors. My logic invites me to think that the capacitors in the DM-10MKII are some Vishay BC (for the color of the cover) as being Vishay leading manufacturers serving Densen different material like metal film resistors, etc .... . exclusive service of all electronic capacitors for Densen under your screen name could be part of an agreement which was subject to price improvements for the material to buy a larger volume to Vishay.
Someone shed some light please (question mark ..... does not work, sorry)
Greetings from Spain.
gizmo |
Holaaaa, Gizmo. Nice to read you here.
From which region of Spain you are? Im quite familiar with Spain. Just this year i spent again two months in Spain experiencing few northern branches of Camino Santiago(San Sebastian, Bilbao, Camino Norte primitivo in Basque hills, Muxia to Fistera, Camino Aragon, Camino Santiago from Logrono to Molina seca) Barcelona and exploring Tenerife..
I walked Camino Santiago two years ago, next one will be Camino Sur.
I appreciate Spanish people and your ways and looks of life a lot and i have quite a lot of friends in Spain.
I dont think that is an good idea looking around for old types of electrolytic caps, because newer ones are more advanced, faster and they just sound better as a final consequence.
ROE is an old company with the modern times technology, but Vishay didnt bother much when they bought so many capacitors factories all around the world and ROE technology remains the same.
It surely depends first what you want to achieve with changing electrolytic caps, but generally, the result with the certain good audio standard caps will be very nice..
I would suggest you that we go on Private Messages. Click something like bell like button in the upper side of the forum interface, under "Ćlanki".
I ll send you one to make it easier.
Abrazos, Jaro
_________________
Great people talk about ideas, average people talk about things, small people talk about other people. |
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mestn pu
Pridruen/-a: Sre Jan 2009 22:21
Prispevkov: 2635
Kraj: domžale
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| Objavljeno: Sre Okt 31, 2012 08:44 Naslov sporočila: |
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| audiofrik je napisal/a: | usmernik kot tak ima doloĆØeno impedanco, odvisno od transformatorja-presek žice, upornosti kondenztorjev ki je precej odvisno od kapacitivnosti---z bistvenim posegom v ta razmerja spremeniÅ” tudi zvok,lahko neznatno ali precej, ker sem sam kar nekaj tega dal skozi tudi približno vsaj zase vem kaj delam, dam pa kar nekajna kvaliteto materiala, in ko vidim kak nov kao vrhunski ojaĆØevalec poln teh low cost jajc me zmrazi...
tu se tudi povsem strinjam z raznimi modifikatorji squeezboxov ipd ki v bistvu najveĆØkrat zamenjajoelektrolite za boljÅ”e-vsaj panasonic, dodajo par folijskih in stvar verjamem da igra povsem drugaĆØe.... |
Tudi mene zmrazi, ko zagledam žalost pod pokrovom dragih komponent, tudi zelo dragih..Te imajo sicer dostikrat Ŕe kar solidno pasivo, a ne kompletne in ne vsi proizvajalci....
Kako naj bi to igralo, ĆØe je veliko te pasive podobne kot na matiĆØnih ploÅ”ĆØah raĆØunalnikov, kamor taka pasiva tudi sodi?
Panasonic so nekaj vmes. Za napajanje, ja, na liniji signala, ne....Dobijo se elkoti z bolj linearnim odzivom in manj popaĆØenji v visokih tonih.
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Great people talk about ideas, average people talk about things, small people talk about other people. |
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gizmo
Pridruen/-a: Sre Okt 2012 3:36
Prispevkov: 4
Kraj: Spain
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| Objavljeno: Sre Okt 31, 2012 12:08 Naslov sporočila: |
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Hello, Jaro!
above all thank you very much for your answer.
What a joy to know you've been in such good places in Spain.
I live in the south, specifically in Santiago de la Ribera, Murcia. If you ever visit these latitudes here's someone to have a beer;)
Such is the love he professed to the sound of the DM-10 which gives me much respect to put other capacitors than the originals. It is true that condensers are not found in the middle of the signal path but would not leave room for possible suggestions putting capacitors but much better on paper then end up introducing a change in the sound.
I got in touch with me Densen to facilitate the values of the capacitors and also took the opportunity to ask if it was a Vishay BC or whether it would be good option for not changing the original sound. Have responded to the technical specifications of the capacitors but have not responded on Vishay. I also asked if I could buy them directly capacitors but I have not said anything about it.
The cost of a RIFA is very high?
How about compared to Mundorf?
regards
gizmo |
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mestn pu
Pridruen/-a: Sre Jan 2009 22:21
Prispevkov: 2635
Kraj: domžale
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| Objavljeno: Sre Okt 31, 2012 12:43 Naslov sporočila: |
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| gizmo je napisal/a: | Hello, Jaro!
above all thank you very much for your answer.
What a joy to know you've been in such good places in Spain.
I live in the south, specifically in Santiago de la Ribera, Murcia. If you ever visit these latitudes here's someone to have a beer;)
Such is the love he professed to the sound of the DM-10 which gives me much respect to put other capacitors than the originals. It is true that condensers are not found in the middle of the signal path but would not leave room for possible suggestions putting capacitors but much better on paper then end up introducing a change in the sound.
I got in touch with me Densen to facilitate the values of the capacitors and also took the opportunity to ask if it was a Vishay BC or whether it would be good option for not changing the original sound. Have responded to the technical specifications of the capacitors but have not responded on Vishay. I also asked if I could buy them directly capacitors but I have not said anything about it.
The cost of a RIFA is very high?
How about compared to Mundorf?
regards
gizmo |
I didnt tried Mundorf elkos, i tried Mundorf Supreme MKP with very good result on some other application on the signal path.
BC was also former owner of Rifa, what a mess, isnt it? Rifa prices varied very from one store to another and since they stopped the production in Sweden, it is difficult to find the whole array of values you need, so the Nichicons of certain type i mentioned to you on PM, are another good option. They are plentyfull.
But it is mandatory when you are changing elkos, to have only one type of them on the signal path, otherwise result will be, que sera, sera.
For PSU it is not vital that elko is the same type then those on the signal path.
Rifas were widely used in aeronautics, some types of Rifas can even sustain 150 or 125 c degrees. For what they are offering, they are cheap.
The sound after changing elkos cant be original, because old elkos are wore out, it will surely be better. If not, we can dicuss further on PM, there some other good "tricks" in the sleeve to improve the improved further on.
I surely will hold you for word about having a cerveza with you, if i come to your latitude in the future...San Miguel is my saint when it comes to that, but peregrinos, we are not picky at all.
I just looked at Santiago de la Ribera, Murcia and it is wooow. You have Santiago cross in bandera and escudo, my favourite symbol.
In the bus station in Santiago de Compostella i asked for tickets for Muxia and Gallegos didint told me, that Muxia is have to be spelled MurŔia.
So, they made a practical joke and said when i asked for tickets for Mursia and i specially underlined, "the one nearby Fistera".
"You know, Murcia is far away.." 
And after that:"You mean MurÅ”(X)ia?"
I was laughing back to them:"Ok, ok. Why didnt you say before, that you also have like we have, letter Å , but you are writing it as X, i can spell wonderfull Å , i m not an Aleman?"
Take care, Jaro
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Great people talk about ideas, average people talk about things, small people talk about other people. |
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gizmo
Pridruen/-a: Sre Okt 2012 3:36
Prispevkov: 4
Kraj: Spain
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| Objavljeno: Sre Okt 31, 2012 14:42 Naslov sporočila: |
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hehe ..... Galicians are very funny (sometimes) They use much the "X" in place of "C" for their local dialect.
Indeed Galicia and Murcia are far. My mother is Galician and we often Galicia. It's almost 1000 kms.
I'm all ears for those tricks of the sleeve you mention .... : D
If we want the private talking.
At this very moment I spoke with Thomas Sillesen (Densen) and I will buy from them directly 8 original capacitors.
I think the problem discussed in this thread mate is not related to the quality of the condenser but is related to the electrolysis that any battery, battery, capacitor is exposed to be charged for a long time.
The manufacturer advised not to turn off the amplifier for listening or for a couple of days but personally I've had on almost 24hours, 365 days for 12 years ...... and there is no doubt that I have not yet disassembled to observe any the sulfated.
The amplifier is turned off factory emits the sound from the speakers of the emptying of the capacitors. Until that sound has changed in my unit.
A big salute |
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gizmo
Pridruen/-a: Sre Okt 2012 3:36
Prispevkov: 4
Kraj: Spain
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| Objavljeno: Sre Okt 31, 2012 18:40 Naslov sporočila: |
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| Citiram: | | sramota na kvadrat za Densena, tudi pri 30 let in veĆØ starih Elnah se kaj takega ne zgodi, hudo dvomim kar sem prvotno sklepal, da so kondenzatorji od BC Components ali BHC ki so ponavadi iste barve, najbrž kaj no name in fensy napis...drži vodu dok majstori odu... |
Not know the use that the owner has given this amplifier. If the usage has been the same as mine ...... 24 hours, every day of the year for 12 years only in exceptional off (storm or to change the network cable) the sulfated condenser is intrinsic to nature the same apart from the quality and brand of the same. Electrolysis equally affects all batteries or capacitors ...... I played table to keep it always on and not the logic used in this case.
A loaded 12 years Mundorf not suffer electrolysis (question mark .... does not work, sorry)
regards
gizmo |
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PURPLE
Pridruen/-a: Ned Jan 2010 19:27
Prispevkov: 235
Kraj: Savinjska
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| Objavljeno: Pet Jan 31, 2014 20:15 Naslov sporočila: |
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Imam vpraÅ”anje glede kondenzatorjev. V Oakley Image predojaĆØevalcu imam dva Iskrina kondenzatorja. Na kondenzatroju piÅ”e:
Iskra
1 100uF380V
2 100uF380V
3 100uF380V
4 100uF380V
minus 25 plus 70 Celzija.
Ob morebitni menjavi me zanima ali mora imeti nadomestni kondenzator 4 krat po 100uF/380V ali je dovolj 100uF/380V. SpraÅ”ujem ker se ne spoznam - na ostalih kondijih v konĆØnih imam navedeno zgolj eno vrednost uF in napetost.
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HI FI - balzam za uŔesa... |
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PURPLE
Pridruen/-a: Ned Jan 2010 19:27
Prispevkov: 235
Kraj: Savinjska
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| Objavljeno: Pet Jan 31, 2014 20:18 Naslov sporočila: |
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Predvidevam, da je imel oz. ima kakÅ”en forumaÅ” omenjen predojaĆØevalc tako vas prosim za kakÅ”en nasvet glede menjave kondijev oz. nasvet nasploÅ”no - lahko tudi na ZS. Hvala.
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HI FI - balzam za uŔesa... |
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Ne, ne more dodajati novih tem v tem forumu
Ne, ne more odgovarjati na teme v tem forumu
Ne, ne more urejati svojih prispevkov v tem forumu
Ne, ne more brisati svojih prispevkov v tem forumu
Ne ne more glasovati v anketi v tem forumu
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